Join host Greg Boulos on The Boulos Beat as he engages with Tim Harrington, Chairman of Atlantic Hospitality, to delve into Tim’s illustrious career in real estate and hospitality. In this episode, Harrington recounts his early career beginnings in Boston, his subsequent relocation to Maine, and his strategic acquisitions of notable properties such as the Astico, Hidden Pond, and the Claremont Hotel. He offers insights into the ramifications of COVID-19 on his business, underscores the vital role of local banks, and elaborates on his philosophy of property acquisition and renovation. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the intrinsic value of real estate ownership and the promising growth potential within Maine's hospitality sector, which Harrington attributes to its distinctive assets and appeal.
Join host Greg Boulos on The Boulos Beat as he engages with Tim Harrington, Chairman of Atlantic Hospitality, to delve into Tim’s illustrious career in real estate and hospitality.
In this episode, Harrington recounts his early career beginnings in Boston, his subsequent relocation to Maine, and his strategic acquisitions of notable properties such as the Astico, Hidden Pond, and the Claremont Hotel. He offers insights into the ramifications of COVID-19 on his business, underscores the vital role of local banks, and elaborates on his philosophy of property acquisition and renovation.
Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the intrinsic value of real estate ownership and the promising growth potential within Maine's hospitality sector, which Harrington attributes to its distinctive assets and appeal.
MSD 24-0307 Boulos Beat - 2024 #7
Tue, Jan 14, 2025 7:35AM • 1:00:39
SPEAKERS
Greg Boulos, Tim Harrington
Greg Boulos00:00
We'd like to welcome our listeners to The Boulos Beat podcast. I'm your host. Greg Boulos. The Boulos Company is northern New England's largest commercial real estate services firm with offices in Portland, Maine and Portsmouth and Manchester, New Hampshire. We've been selling and leasing real estate in Maine and New Hampshire since 1975 this is a series providing insight into Maine's real estate movers and shakers. And speaking of movers and shakers, I'd like to introduce today's guest Tim Harrington. Tim is the owner and co founder of Atlantic Hospitality, a Maine based company. Tim grew up in Massachusetts and eventually moved to Maine, where he is involved in the hospitality business and real estate development, including retail and medical office buildings. As you listen to the podcast, you will recognize many of his properties. Tim resides in Kennebunkport. Welcome Tim in the introduction, I said you reside in Kennebunkport, but you have several homes in Maine and other countries. As a matter of fact, I've heard you have a house addiction. What's that all about? That's true? Oh, wow. We're
Tim Harrington01:08
going to talk about that's so obnoxious. We're going to talk about that like list houses that's terrible. Houses are investments, by the way, we have to make sure we're clear on that they're good, usually good investments, not always,
Greg Boulos01:22
but people love homes. People collect homes like they collect art something,
Tim Harrington01:27
yeah, I I've always had my, you know, best friend from high school used to call a shack itis, and I couldn't go buy a shack that I didn't love. And we used to buy land in high school, like from the back of magazines. You pay like, $30 do you remember those you it was like, that's probably how I got to Maine in the first place. Do you still own those piece of land? 30? No, I don't even know if we really have the deed to it or anything. Was like a mail order thing a lot in Florida back but, yeah. But you know Maine and New Hampshire. But I, you know, as I grew up in Lexington, but we had, we were camping on one of those pieces of land, and it was pouring rain, and I had gone down to the little store to get something, I don't know, firewood or something. And on the, on the, like the pin board, you know, like on the board, the community board was this little camp for sale for like, $7,000 like a camper with a room attached to it. And so it was, I don't know how this all worked, but I went over to it was, I went over to it, and the owners actually had upgraded to the one next door. And I met them, and they were super nice, older couple, and I had like, $900 in my checking account. So they took a check for that and put me on a payment plan so that I just went back to the campsite. I'm like, let's go. We're moving in, moving into the house. And that was on province lakes. That was probably the first,
Greg Boulos02:50
first one. And is that in Maine goes from province,
Tim Harrington02:53
it's like on the New Hampshire main border, yeah.
Greg Boulos02:56
And then from there, there was no stopping
Tim Harrington02:59
something like that. Yeah,
Greg Boulos03:02
I understand you got your start in Boston, in the shopping center business. What were you doing?
Tim Harrington03:07
Well, I my first real job was, well, first selling cars when I was like 16, but, but then went into commercial, a commercial leasing job for a real estate firm on Newbury Street at 19.
Greg Boulos03:22
Remember the name of the company?
Tim Harrington03:26
Copley Square associates, 207, newbies, something like that. Yeah, I just walked by it the other day, and it's like a lens crafter or something, but, but I was there, and I just worked all the time, and, and, yeah. And then within that year, some people were leaving to open a firm and, and I went with them, and we started a company called properties of Boston. And, and, yeah, that was and properties
Greg Boulos03:53
of Boston was that a leasing company? Yeah,
Tim Harrington03:55
it was a, it was I and he was a, it was really started out as a residential broke the brokers that senior brokers that were leaving copies core associates, was really a residential brokerage firm. They did a lot of apartment rentals and and then some commercial leasing. So I went in and I did their commercial leasing. But I originally, like, sold a building to someone who had, like, walked in off the street, and, you know, and got a big commission. And anyways, it became kind of lore there. And these guys were leaving. They said, You want to come they, I don't think they were even going to do a commercial leasing thing and, and so anyways, we, I went over and did that. I think they, I was like, maybe, I think they threw my 20th birthday party. So, yeah, 20. So it's been a long run.
Greg Boulos04:50
My first job was at 535, Boylston Street. Amazing. What it block is that the corner of Clairton and Boylston, okay, yeah, right around the corner. Yeah. So you were. Up on the parallel street behind Boylston, yeah. When did you move to Maine? And what was the motivation to do that?
Tim Harrington05:08
When did I move to Maine? I had a summer house in Maine since I was in my I don't know, early 20s. Maybe 21 was that the shack? It was, No, this was like a cute little cape, but it was by mistake buying that house. It was a trade, actually, for I was doing a condo conversion in Lexington mass and I there was a woman that owned this house, and she wanted to trade. She wanted to buy her townhouse in Lexington, and the broker said it would sell better in the spring, and this was the fall. So I said, What did they say? It was worth $90,000 something like that. And so I took it in trade for the her condo, and that's how I got my first house in in Kennebunkport. And did you get out of that hole? Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was just gonna sell it and but then it never got sold. It got furnished, and then my mom started to use it, and I'd use it sometimes, and it's difficult to kick your mother out of the house. Yeah, exactly. She loved it. So, yeah, that was that's and then, yeah, we had that house for a long time because she used it as her summer house, and then, and then moved into it eventually.
Greg Boulos06:19
So you actually were in the development business in Massachusetts before you moved to Maine.
Tim Harrington06:23
I was yeah for a long time at the age of 20, yeah, yeah, yeah, to some degree of success and not that was an interest. That was huge deal that that number skyman, there'd been other deals, probably before that, but that was that was an interesting deal. I we paid $24 million for an apartment complex and had all the sales done, and the town came in and passed a bylaw retroactively blocking condominium sales. So that seems fair. Doesn't say early great, you know, quasi disastrous lesson. But it was in it was an amazing lesson to earn that learn that early on. So what happened? We negotiate with the bank. I, you know, probably, I don't know, some form of a bankruptcy. We gave back. It was, it was painful, you know, it was a early lesson and and shit can happen.
Greg Boulos07:23
You know, at the time, you think that's terrible, and it certainly was, but in hindsight, you look back and that probably helped shape how you did business future 100%
Tim Harrington07:33
you know, you learn from those challenges and who you are in those situations. And, you know, we worked with the bank, and then it kind of got us into bank owned real estate and and early on, because of those relationships with that bank and other banks, we started to buy, you know, bank owned real estate. We were selling it and buying. We were kind of picking the best
Greg Boulos07:58
was that during the the recession where recall management was business and yeah, the banks were just giving it away, yeah, because they were in trouble. When you came to me, what was your first project?
Tim Harrington08:13
Well, you know, lots of had many houses in Maine early too. But my first commercial project was, so, you know, coming weekends up, you know, renovated, I don't know, let me think about that. Oh, probably five point shopping center. So over the years, I got more into retail centers, and because of commercial leasing and had, you know, used commissions to buy retail properties. And then, you know, knew of the one in Biddeford, because we used to go to the movies there and and it was run down. And, you know, so figured someone wasn't exactly paying attention. And so I just called up the owner in Rhode Island, and
Greg Boulos08:59
was that person properties. I
Tim Harrington09:03
think it was that. That's fine. There's a blast in the past. Maybe I haven't heard
Greg Boulos09:07
that name, and he just came to me, yeah, so you still own that property?
Tim Harrington09:12
I do. Yeah, I've owned it's actually run down again, or it was, anyways, isn't you've owned stuff too long. This goes to a second a second cycle. Yeah, it's in a full repositioning right now to it's going to be called the five, and it's going to be kind of entertainment and sports focused. And we have lots of good re tenanting happening there right now. And one of the most exciting things is 20,000 square foot pickleball club called bounce, which is a huge sports bar and pickleball facility restaurant that opens the end of March. That's one of the most fun things I'm working on that will do very well. Oh, yeah, already has a lot
Greg Boulos09:55
of buzz, and you've got excess land there too, right? Yes, yeah, we're
Tim Harrington09:58
permitting apartments. There right now, and is that good interest for the office? Amazing? I would say anything about a place you know, Bideford Maine. The transformation of Bideford Maine is incredible, actually.
Greg Boulos10:11
Let me ask you about this, because, as you certainly know about it back 2025, years ago, the city fathers in Bideford decided it was a good idea to put an incinerator in the middle of the town, and they've since taken it down, and it's led to the rebirth of benefit, yeah, what were they thinking?
Tim Harrington10:28
Yeah, I think they paid off this sometime, maybe paid off the city debt, or whatever, something like that. But it, you know, from the minute that went in Bideford smell like trash. You know, there was really, because trash was shipped there from or brought there and trucks from across Maine, I guess. And so it smelled like garbage. You know, it was like that. I don't know. Is it whatever that juice water that spills out of the backs of those truck, you know, being shipped in every day, and then the smoke that came out of the stack. You know, had a different smell, and it was terrible. But, you know, I think of it now with hindsight. Like many things we were talking about, that project in in Lexington, as you look back, and it was kind of amazing what what happened. Because, if you think of all the shitty development that happened in places like a bitterford or Dover New Hampshire all like urban renewal, that all of those buildings would have been torn down in that period in one story, crappy retail. No offense to the retail guys out there like me, but you know, like a lot of that got built when that stuff got taken down. And what happened in Biddeford was was kind of put in a time capsule, so it wasn't worth anything. None of that real estate was worth a penny. So it wasn't worth even ripping it down. And however many years that was there, and then the city, you know, kind of had the foresight to come in and raise the money and buy that back with tax dollars and, you know, political will, and it was transformative. But what happened was they ended up with this fully intact, you know, kind of historical, you know, brick downtown and in a new, you know, a new a new time when people appreciated that. And so, if you, know, watch the trajectory of bidderford from that period on. It's the youngest city in Maine. It's booming. It's thriving. It's, it's, it's like the Brooklyn of Maine. It's the creatives. There's, you know, an incredible, vibrant restaurant scene. You know, of course, now we have the train to Boston and Portland, and I don't know wherever else it goes, everywhere. I guess the university, booming University, largest employer in Southern Maine. You know, Southern Maine healthcare. Incredible, incredible place.
Greg Boulos12:55
And you own the 240 square foot mill. Is
Tim Harrington12:59
it the Lincoln mill, the Lincoln mill, yet, 240,000
Greg Boulos13:03
about that in the hotel?
Tim Harrington13:05
Yeah. So that was an interesting, you know, by, you know, I bought that. I don't know when I blocked it. It was, you know, I had that vacant for a lot of years. And, you know, if it had only been apartments, I think it would have got built a lot earlier. But, you know, I thought the most interesting part of it was the hotel component. So it's, it ended up, it's 165 apartments, 34 or five room hotel rooftop, swimming pool, big, gorgeous bats and river, a big gym, you know, some other commercial space. So it's a, you know, it's an incredible place to live, because you take the elevator to bats, into the gym, over to the Lincoln hang out in the in the lobby. It's, you know, it's part of this, you know, bit of science, the renaissance of bitterford, which name the hotel. It's called the Lincoln, the Lincoln, yeah, and it's gets a lot of, you know, lots of great press. And it's an incredible place. Is gorgeous. It's not that we did it, but our our design team, you know, we think of ourselves as a design company in the hotel business. So we, you know, Christa Stokes, Marco, you know, they run that, you know, design piece of our business, with a whole incredible team. And so everything that we do, you know, runs through their their hands, and you're an
Greg Boulos14:44
owner of the Batson river Yes, restaurant with Captain
Tim Harrington14:47
ward. Yeah, my best friend and and Kenny von port. He's an incredible builder. You probably know some of his stuff. Sure, Thomas and Lord high end. Yeah, really beautiful houses. And how. My house. How'd
Greg Boulos15:00
you get in the hotel business? Speaking of Lincoln,
Tim Harrington15:04
the hotel business was by mistake, or by something I don't know was I didn't realize I was in the hotel business. I bought a place called Cabot Cove cottages in kennebeneport, just because I thought it was kind of cool, these little cottages, like little monopoly houses around a cove. And I just wanted to renovate the cottages. And it was at the opening we did an opening for the, I don't know, the land trust and something river tree Center for the Arts. We did a big design open house. So a different designer did each one. And a friend of mine who was in the hotel business, I think she was on the board or something, of Sheridan, said, You know, you're in the hotel business. And I was like, What do you mean? I'm in the hotel. This is a hotel. You're in the hotel business. You don't know what you're doing. You need to get a manager. You need to do all this stuff, and, and, and so I was like, Oh, wow. Okay, that's amazing. I thought I was gonna sell them off as condos, and I think I did sell some, but they had to be rented and taken care of. So
Greg Boulos16:07
different business and development, yeah.
Tim Harrington16:09
And so she said, you know, the best hotel manager, I know, Deb Lennon, is already in Kennebunkport. She owns the Kennebunkport inn, and I hadn't met Deb. And so anyways, I went over and knocked on her door. And, you know, the rest is history. Made a deal. And, yeah, and I was selling a bunch. I had my first kind of capital event, big capital event. Someone was buying most of my Boston shopping center. So it was a moment to, you know, buy up a bunch of hotels from the original owners in Kennebunkport. So we did, we rounded up a bunch and made it into a collection,
Greg Boulos16:42
you know, based on the research I've done on you. Tim, it seems like you have a real love for design, and that seems to drive your acquisitions or renovations. Yeah,
Tim Harrington16:55
well, I always have like, an idea, like, oh, this could be this, or this could look like that. I mean, I I've been cured of the idea that I think of myself as a designer by Krista and Mark, because it's much their annoyance, but, but I definitely have an opinion. I still have an opinion, and if
Greg Boulos17:14
you're writing the checks that opinion, yeah,
Tim Harrington17:16
exactly. So, yeah, I have appreciation for design and I and I think people for sure travel for design. Now that's a thing, you know, they've always traveled for food. They travel for experience, but you know, a lot of our people, from early on, we got design press, much before we got hospitality press, and that drove and defined our market and our customer.
Greg Boulos17:43
Tim, you've accumulated an incredible portfolio of properties. Let me list a few, and this is just a sampling of the properties you've owned with each of these properties. Give us a brief description of what comes to mind, just a little blurb on each so let me throw some of these out. The dunes on the waterfront in the gun quit. I believe there's 24 properties there. So
Tim Harrington18:09
Dunes is like, I think dunes just opened last year. So it's one of the latest ones. So there's a collection from called the Kennebunkport resort collection that was my in my early incarnation of hotels, and that group is now has been sold to a New York real estate trust. But Dunes is one that we did. We finished last year, and dunes is incredible. So all my you know, back to Shaka itis, I love, I love the idea of individual little cottages. So Cabot Cove, I think to this day, still ticks up as one of the most occupied hotels, and it people love to come play house in these little cottages. So I'm always been interested in that after Cabo Cove, I built hidden pond. The idea of like creating the perfect what is the perfect summer cottage, and dunes is a version of but dunes was in the original family, 90, like three generations. The Perkins and this grandson, you know, sold it to us and trusted us with that property. And I'd seen a plan for it that, you know, showed like, 200 vinyl sided townhouses on that property, which would be a sin. Oh, actually, a lot of the things that we buy right now, we're competing with buyers that have a lot of money to just rip these down and build a single family home. And, you know, no offense to anyone. I think it's great build your house, whatever. But these are a great loss to the communities where they are, and so now it's become almost a passion to preserve these properties for, you know, generations and generations. Conversations to come. But we went in and we restored the cottage. Is going to add some more. It's an incredible sits on 12 acres, right on the sand and hidden in a Concord, because it's behind route one. You don't see it from route one, and it's, you know, it's magical. It's like going back in time, except that, of course, each one has our design stamp on it, and it's, it's really fun to watch people. People have been going there for many generations still have come. And it was really fun to to meet some of them this year, because it was quite a, you know, it was a, you know, it was a process. Because, you know, the pricing is quite different now, you know, we spent a lot of money renovating these, and so people were skeptical. We'll say that had stayed there before, but it was really fun to have people booking and rebooking for this coming year. And it's been, it's been a, just a great project to watch. We actually, and Katie, who's was the manager before for I think 15 years, kind of came with us, which has never happens. It's really hard to do that. And she's, she's incredible, one of our favorite, favorite managers, when
Greg Boulos21:13
you're looking to buy a property like that, obviously, price to the seller is huge, but I imagine a lot of those sellers would love to see the properties preserved,
Tim Harrington21:23
for sure. That's an interesting thing. People are calling us now that that happens a lot. They know what we do, and yeah, if it's been your family's, you know, their whole life. And you know, hospitality is like a calling. So we talk about this in our company a lot. We're in the joy business. So it's, you know, for me, it's amazing, because it combines a lot of things that I love. You know, of course, real estate, dirt, you know that. But you know, if you think of some of your strongest memories as a kid, they're from the summer, you know, they're, they're whatever, whatever your kind of economic background was, whether it was camping or whatever it was, I don't know. Why are those memories so strong? And you know, most of the people that stay with us in our hotels, they've chosen to spend their not only their vacation dollars, but their time. And today, time is so valuable, and there's so many places people can go, and so that they continuously choose us. Is is amazing, you know, and it's so fulfilling. And we take that as a very, you know, it's a that's a heavy responsibility, you know. We take it very seriously and, and so, yeah, it's an incredible business to be in. And back to your original point of families choosing us if you've dedicated your family, if your family's dedicated their whole life to that, of course, you want to see it to keep going, you know. So you'd rather you want to get your money that you've earned over, you know. So you want, you want, you know, these things are not inexpensive, but, but you'd love to get someone to continue their legacy in that way. So
Greg Boulos22:58
Claire on Claire mon hotel in southwest harbor. You purchased that in 2020
Tim Harrington23:03
Yes, so, and that was another one that was in the same it was a generational, let's see, I bought that from the third generation. They weren't so much involved. They had had a manager for that generation, but it was closed during COVID. I think the manager was retiring just before and, and I'd never, you know, bought property up there. I didn't really know I'd been to Acadia as a kid, but I was, had recently, you know, been up there and kind of reconnecting because of boating and and then, but with new eyes in the hotel business, understand the power of the National Park and that. You know Katie, you know this. You know think, Oh, it's too far from Kennebunkport. But when you're up there, you say to people, oh, have you ever been to Kennebunkport? And I remember one time someone said, why? And it was like, Oh, it was so painful. You know, it's like, they're like, that's like, northern Massachusetts, you know, they have their own airports, and people go and they come, and it's a whole nother, you know. And I love Kennebunkport, and always will. And I think it's stunningly beautiful Southern Maine, but up there is majestic, and that it's a whole nother world. And so I've been spending more and more time up there, and my most recent acquisitions all around up there. The Claremont is an incredible property, and we got that renovation done during COVID in seven months. It got renovation. It's the hotel, and I don't know, maybe 10 different houses or different outbuildings, beautiful, two restaurants, main restaurant, motel, and then a Batson river down on the dock. But it's, it's stunning. It's, it's incredible. And I remember you. The day, I went up and looked at it was closed, of course, COVID. I remember walking around the corner the right side of the building, looking out back over some sound at um, at Cadillac Mountain, and thinking, I don't even know what this is. I'm definitely buying this. I have no idea. I didn't know anything, whatever. How many keys it was, how many caught it, what went with it? What did you know what it did for business, which, you know, had never been renovated. It was really not doing very much and but it was just stunning. I knew that, you know, I wanted to
Greg Boulos25:31
have it. So when you got the you got the bug for that area. You also purchased the astoku Hotel,
Tim Harrington25:37
yeah, well, in between, during, after, while doing the Claremont I, you know, realize, as I often do, we take too big a bite of lots of things, but that would, I'd want to be rounding up properties up there. So I bought a place in Bar Harbor on on the cove over there salt cottages that that also probably would have been torn down, and something would have been built there and, and that's kind of like a dunes. I don't know how many, maybe 30 or 40 cottages there that we renovated after the Claremont that place is incredible. It's like, it's really great for families. And kids just love it. And they can go out and play in the middle and and the families can be together. And now people are booking there together. So it's like salt cottage friends, you know. So they they book their their same vacations, same with people they met from there, and that's really fun to see that happen, and that that's something that that does happen faster, those kind of connections.
Greg Boulos26:50
The asterku Hotel is a northeast harbor. Yeah,
Tim Harrington26:53
and asked to coup came. Let's see, when did I know I was behind? Yes, people would talk to me. So lots of people at Claremont, you know, are were involved. Ask who was interested. So it wasn't exactly a family, but it was like that. So there was one family, the savage family, that owned it for a very long time, and then to protect that, maybe 30 years ago, when they wanted to sell, a group of neighbors in northeast harbor had bought that, and, you know, which with good intention, but you know, it's kind of a terrible idea for a property, because there was no one really, really in charge, and no one to renovate. It was would had really fallen
Greg Boulos27:41
Black Point in Oh, really. A bunch of neighbors went purchased Black Point in interest, sold off some lots for development, and then hired a management company to come in and manage it. I think it's worked out really well before, good,
Tim Harrington27:55
but not always the case. But being in
Greg Boulos27:57
northeast Harbor, Martha Stewart lives there, and I had a stager friendly with her.
Tim Harrington28:04
Martha lives up there. Yeah, she's in, yeah, she would be pissed if I said she lived in northeast harbor, and I'm blanking right now, whatever
Greg Boulos28:15
it's the next little village over. Do you know where? Well, does she come her house
Tim Harrington28:19
is amazing. She has the the old Ford estate. I think it's maybe, like, you know, I don't know, 40,000 square feet. It's incredible. You could have no better a steward of a property like that than Martha Stewart. She also is a house. She's a passion for houses and renovation, and
Greg Boulos28:41
she's got an eye for decorating too. Oh yeah,
Tim Harrington28:43
she has everything. And she's interested in business and how things work. And I'm sure that's why she's, you know, interested in me and I'm interested in hers, that she's, you know, it's really incredible how her brain works, yeah, and she's a lot of fun.
Greg Boulos29:01
Another property, and again, this is just sampling, but one diamond located close to downtown, bit of
Tim Harrington29:06
500 use. So one diamond is a group of properties that Kevin Lord and I have been buying and piecing, parceling together, and that eventually will be a neighborhood on the river there. It's in permitting right now for, I don't know, five, 600 apartments in multiple buildings, reminds me a little bit of the Lincoln, because, you know, I had the Lincoln vacant for a long time, and trying to figure out the financing, and going through, you know, markets and interest rates, and, and just getting banks to understand a luxury hotel and in bitterford and when there hadn't even, wasn't really even a hotel, I guess, through a couple of motels and, and so when diamonds a little bit like that, you know, we want to build luxury apartments. Yes, and you know, so it's getting the right combination of things and money and people and interest rates to come down a little bit. And yeah, but it's going to be great when it's done. How
Greg Boulos30:14
do you finance all these projects? Is it with local banks? Is it do you bring an equity partner?
Tim Harrington30:18
Well, I love local so this is, can be a commercial, a pitch for our Maine banks. We have incredible, incredible banks in Maine and in Massachusetts, Tucson, you know, original. I have bank relationships that go back to Massachusetts, one of my, you know, my key one, you know, 25 year relationship that's still involved in all these projects in Maine. Usually they're the seed money, the original, you know, you know, can any crazy idea, and they're, you know, they're interested, because they bank relationships, and then all of our great Maine banks, and if I start naming them, I'll get in trouble, because, you know, we've worked with so many of them, but, um, brilliant hotelier. She actually really knew what she was doing, and lived in Kennebunkport. And so we did hidden pond, and then built Earth there and the bungalows, and then bought the tides from a family, from Marie and her daughter, who'd been there for, I don't know, 40 years, down on goose rocks beach, and then Cape verundal in and then added old fort to that, over crossing the bushes on ocean Ave. And then, I don't know when the yachtsmen came and boathouse, and I don't know there's more in there, the grand. We built the grand in downtown in Kenny, in dock square on the Kennebunk side, and I don't know what the order is, and there's huge sell to more. And then we sold to a fantastic real estate investment trust that owns some incredible properties around the country, EOS investors out of New York and you know, and then they've owned it now for maybe six years. So
Greg Boulos32:17
you spent so much time in Kennebunk and Kennebunkport. Do you ever see the bushes down there? Yes,
Tim Harrington32:22
yeah, no, the bushes were HW and Barbara were huge supporters. And, you know, put really Kenny bunk port on the map. So if you think, like we were in the hotel business, and how do people find Kennebunkport? Why? And, you know, as opposed to somewhere else. And I think that that original credit all goes to the bushes and they, you know, you think of HW, he was vice president there, and that was his summer, you know, office was there on the point. And then his summer White House when he became president. And, you know, I think every world leader has been in Kenny one port brought there by HW and and so for sure. And all kinds of, you know, group events and nonprofits and and people and, and, yeah, interesting stories. But you know, we posted George W down there too, and w's there now, and he's, you know, living a quieter existence there. And his connection there isn't really, you know, you know, it was because it was, that was h W's place. But, yeah, he's there now. And then, of course, all the siblings who are amazing and very involved in town, yeah, it's been great. But really, I think, you know, incredibly important for the for Kennebunkport, in the history of Kennebunkport,
Greg Boulos33:56
what's your favorite property that you've developed? Oh,
Tim Harrington33:59
God, people ask me that all the time, I really I don't have a favorite. Is that, like asking, what's your favorite child? Yeah, probably I don't have kids, nieces and nephews, and I love them all the same. But, you know, hidden pond, of course, is really special because that was like a ground up. That was something we created. My ex and I want Earth to be we were in, we had a house in, where were we when we were doing that in Uruguay? And we had, we lived part of our life in Argentina and Uruguay, and it was so hidden pond in the restaurant, Earth was more inspired by there about the fire and about, you'd have these, like, pop up summer restaurants in the really, their summer season so short, like the month of January, and you're going, you just go, you turn right at, like, the wood pile, and go up this little dark road in the back of some beach and and there'd be a fire burning, and it would be a show. From Argentina, and they were, maybe he'd decide was cooking that night, so maybe he had Bronzino, or in lamb from a farmer who brought lamb and, and that's, you know, it was so rustic. And, you know, and each year you'd go and they'd add, maybe, you know, you the wood pile, and it put a put a metal roof to partially cover the tables. And then something more would get out of this little before building code. And they are anyways, and I remember being like, oh, let's do our walls out of stacks of wood. And like, that's not code. You can't do that.
Greg Boulos35:35
Earth is a great restaurant, by the way. I love it. Thank you.
Tim Harrington35:38
Thank you. Yeah, Earth is is fantastic and has taken on a life, a life of its own. But that's that were the beginnings of that. So, yeah, so hidden pond is very, very special. Has an incredible energy there. You know, I don't know. It's just, I don't know why. You know, it's
Greg Boulos35:54
what's your least favorite property that you've been involved with?
Tim Harrington35:58
Least favorite? I that nothing really comes to mind about that, because they're all special for some reason, you know. But I think that the Lincoln is incredible, you know, it's the first, like, kind of city property that we did. It's, you know, like, more like a Soho House or something like that, with that industrial, industrial chic thing. Then, of course, the Claremont is incredible, the dunes, even like the wonder in Kennebunkport, which we have now just another group of cottages and that sat vacant and rotting for a long time. And, you know, we're here on a real estate blog, but it's kind of a great story The for as long as I can remember, you know, it's on a prominent corner near Kennebunk beach, and it was, it was partially closed, you know, I people lived in the house, and they had a couple of cottages they used, I don't know who they rented them to, probably, maybe kids that worked in town and and I had under contract, I don't know, 20 years ago, And I had a disagreement with the building inspector about he thought they lost their non conforming use, and our position was no, he still rents some of the cottage, and he said, Yeah, but the other ones are now unused. And we're like, Well, if you run a hotel at 20% occupancy, you don't lose your use. And anyways, but I love Paul. Wasn't going to fight with him with lots of projects going on. So we just let that go. And then it was like, 10 years later, I don't know what it was, 15 years later, he retired, and we just came back and put it back on a contract, and just went to the new building inspector, and he was like, Yeah, top that makes perfect sense. And then we went in and renovated that with Kevin Lord, and, you know, opened it, and that was the property. I probably got more thank you notes and gifts from neighbors for because it was so dumb. It was sitting there was an eyesore, and, and it's such a great, vibrant property now. And you know, it's a real kind of 30 something, 20 something. And I realized their bike to the beach, and they, they meet out by the fire and play bocce, and, you know, drink bats in river beer. And, you know, it's a great, great place, though.
Greg Boulos38:01
So let me ask you, what do you think the biggest advantage is of owning hotel properties and the biggest disadvantage? Well,
Tim Harrington38:12
you know, it's not for everyone. It's hardly, it's the opposite of passive. I mean, it's a, you know, full on, you know, it's a complete different you know, it's not even, it is the real estate business, but it's the furthest, it's the most. You know you have to know how to run hotels. You know, you have to be in the hotel business and, and it's intensive, and it's, you know, in Maine, you know, the seasons are stretching much longer. And you know, that's, that's part of our, you know, kind of our challenges. But it's, you have to love it. It has to be a calling, and has to be a passion, a passion. And it's again, you know, we come back to, you know, we talk about, in our company, about being in the joy business, and you have to be joyful. You have to be, you know, present and and care about your your employees and their experience, because they'll care about your customers and your guests. And if you, you know, if you have happy employees and and joyful employees, it's, it's contagious. You know, excitement and joy is, is contagious. So
Greg Boulos39:16
Tim, I won't ask your age, but you've been around for a while, as if i What worries you at night, you know, you've got these properties. Life is good, but certainly some things must worry you,
Tim Harrington39:30
you know, these days, not, I have to say, not a lot we've been having that conversation. You know, there's a lot of pressure, you know, we take on these incredible, you know, budgets and deadlines, really, like, you know, the Astok, who was opening may 31 and you know, it's, yeah, it's a huge project. Building up around Acadia is incredibly challenging labor, incredibly challenging. And so, you know, we take on these impossible deadlines. So, you know, if I worry about those things, but you know, we have, I, you know, I just can't say enough about this incredible team we have, and, and so, yeah, I did not a lot well, you know, of course I would hate to let someone down, missing a deadline, that kind of thing. But, yeah, no, not, not, not so much these days.
Greg Boulos40:23
You know, in the last 10 years, maybe 15 years, real estate's been incredible for most segments of real estate, including hotels. But it's not always like that. You know, you go around, we've seen some down, down cycles. What can you think of a time period where things are really bad, and what'd you learn from all that?
Tim Harrington40:44
Well, I started by talking about, you know, the project in Lexington. I was, like, the first major project that we didn't it was, but was a bust. Things can bust, I think, doesn't all real estate go up, speaking, all real estate go up. Yeah, I've had people ask me that all the time, especially around houses, you know, like because, you know, people say, like, you flip. I don't flip houses. I buy houses. I love houses. I live in them. I renovate them. I've built house, but I have a passion for houses. And, you know, I don't, I don't love that Flipboard. And, you know, I've lost money on houses, for sure, 100 I remember one on Kennebunk beach, and kept getting destroyed every winter. And Ted Carter's landscape would roll out down, you know, 50 grand worth of plants would go out behind and, God, I celebrated that sales. Probably, I don't know, I lost 400 grand or something on that house. And I probably celebrated that sale more than than anything. But no real estate can go up and down. They're, you know, of course, real estate cyclical, but Kevin Lord and I were having that conversation with the other like who decided that patience was a virtue. It should have been perseverance and, and really, I think many times we buy something, we have a great idea for it, and then we get into it, we're like, No, this, this is dumb. We got to do this. And we turn left and we turn right, and we figure it out, and we stay with it. And, and sometimes I had this. I had a conversation recently with the banker who will remain nameless, that was, you know, they, they said to me, Well, you're but this isn't what you plan. You're going to do it just like, Yeah, isn't that great that, you know, we can, we can turn on a dime. We can say, like, that was the wrong direction. And we have this better idea, and we don't, you know, catch up guys. We have to open in May. We can't, you know, we, we, you know, you'll, you'll get paid. Everyone gets paid. You got to be nimble. You got to be nimble. And that's, you know, we, I love my main banks, because, for the most part, they're nimble, and they get that, you know, and they're right in there. And that's what's great. I mean, I'm guessing, and because I don't, I don't know this. But, you know, I know it a little bit through Eos, and you know, there's a lot more stringent, you know, there's a lot it's harder with the National Bank, and they don't, you know, want to hear about a change that you made, even if it's for the better. And, you know, I've heard a lot of those war stories, and that's why it just
Greg Boulos43:19
doesn't interest me. I want to the national banks don't have the
Tim Harrington43:21
flexibility, yeah, and that's, I want to work with entrepreneurial banks that, you know, understand that. And that's how we, you know, that's how we survive, you know, is persevere, you know, and make changes and and see on the ground what makes sense and, and if something doesn't work, you figure out the next thing and the next thing, and, you know, but that's what we've we've done. And, yeah, we stay with it.
Greg Boulos43:44
You know, you said entrepreneurial banks. That'd be a great slogan for some bank to pick up on. Yeah.
Tim Harrington43:48
And I think we have some of those that in Maine. I know you don't want me to start naming banks, because I have my my favorites, but, uh, but, um, yeah, no, there are a lot of banks that absolutely are, and then, you know, we have some that that aren't, that that don't, you know, that aren't, don't like, or don't understand when someone makes a change for the better and and doesn't have time to, you know, again, especially in the hotel business, I think of this opening we're always trying to open for, you know, the end of May, and the paints wet, and the plants are going in and the sods being rolled down, and, you know, we have an opening party, and you're trying to jump in the shower, and there's dirt from the sod. And you know, that's always the case. Wet paint on check in day.
Greg Boulos44:34
Any concern about a bubble happening with hotels? No,
Tim Harrington44:41
and I think that I mean bubbles and lots of things, yes, and for sure, cyclical markets. So I'm not, you know, you know, we listen, people can go into a, you know, go into a recession and, and, you know, of course, but. Maine is a really interesting place, and I've been just lucky enough, and by chance that Maine was where I ended up in my career is here, because over the years, even through recession. So I think of like hidden pond. People used hidden pond as a play. They said, you say, you know, we can't, we're not going to go to Europe this year, but we'll go to we'll go to hidden pond. So we've always had this, and we've been on a there's never been a year since I've been in business in Maine that we haven't done more in that that year is always the best year, and that's because of Maine. That's not because of national markets and and then also interesting in the residential, you know? Mean, we've never, you know, we, for the most part, the houses and the residential we had been involved with is always going up. I mean, the prices I see more directly related to and in the Kenny bunks. I mean, it's incredible what houses sell for and what they're built for. And, you know, because I know Kevin and intimately involved with his business. But you know, there are many people that are have spent 20, $30 million on their houses and in in the Kenny monks and and you'll see some of those turn. I mean, they don't turn. They're these, you know, for families. And that's been an upward, you know, 5 million and then seven, and then 10. It's like, who's spending 10 million and and, and then 20 and, and now I heard of, you know, over 30 and so, yeah, I think it's when you have buyers that are coming from Palm Beach or coming from York or coming from Miami, that, you know, they're used to those, yeah, and they're used to those prices. And it's the, you know, the rise of the, you know, 100 million dollar house. And, you know, because I live in Miami Beach, I'm, you know, and I'm surrounded by, I love real estate brokers. I play pickleball in the summer with real estate brokers. I play in in Florida, and I love real estate brokers. And there's some of my best friends. And in Boston, own are some of the most successful real estate brokers on the markets. They are in or, or, or are the most successful. And so I love real estate talk and real estate gossip, and it's, I mean, it's incredible what's happened in these markets and where it's headed and so, so I tie it back to hotels. Those are our hotel guests. So you know, the rise of the $1,000 a night hotel room is absolutely that's the market that we're in now. So you
Greg Boulos47:37
mentioned a couple times COVID. I was just wondering, how did that affect your overall business? Did it help or
Tim Harrington47:43
hurt COVID was, you know, an interesting time, and, you know, obviously a really scary time and terrible time was, you know, I, I didn't lose anyone close to me, but I do know of, you know, really terrible stories of, you know, of death and death in isolation, which is always kind of freaks me out a little bit. But personally, for COVID, it was a, you know, I loved our COVID time. It was like a sabbatical. And interesting timing. I just closed on the kennebendport resort collection right before that. Just closed on the sale, probably a month before, and I was on a trip. Where was I? We were on? We were in Atacama, in Chile, the Atacama Desert. And I remember whatever, this very cool eco resort was a group of, you know, friends, my travel group, and I remember them recalling they were making announcement that, like, literally, the world was closing that different flights, and Delta was recalling and American and I remember we were, happened to be lucky enough to be on a friend's plane, and we're on our way to Peru and and she was like, All right, we need, we can keep going, because we're, we don't, we're not on, we're on a plane. And then, but the whole group was like, No, we have to get back to our respective and I had sold, I was still a partner, but I had sold a majority. But I wanted to get back to my people and like, what does it mean to be in the hotel business when hotels are closing, you know? And I And for my new, new partners, and, you know, I want to go back and get with, you know, and see what this all means. But I happen to be on the plane with one of my best friends, who's the producer of chopped and owns, you know, does a lot of food television, and she was saying, too, like, I have to get back production shut down. How are we going to do this? How are we going to businesses and and so we kind of dreamt up the single hidden pond going to be closed, and you can't so let's produce hidden chopped at Hidden pond, and people can isolate, and we kind of spun this thing up. So that's what ended up happening that year, and and that's how I met Martha Stewart, because she was a judge on chop so, so isolate. It was filmed there. And, yeah, it was great, and it was fun. And this, I don't know they had live cows walking down in front of Earth. And, yeah, it was crazy, but it was a lot of fun. And in how to figure something out. And then, I don't know, Martha got in trouble, because she What did she do? She was on the front page of The New York Post. She broke out of i She was seen out. I don't know, everyone's supposed to be in, we're supposed to be in quarantine or something. She was so funny. She said the New York Post, like, Listen, I've been in jail. No one's keeping me like some, no one's keeping me down. I saw, I don't know whatever it was, and was on the front page of the post, no one's telling me to stay in confinement. I don't know. Some, some great line, I love Martha. And, yeah, so we got through it, and we made, you know, Batson river. We made, I don't know, hand sanitizer. We stopped making vodka, and we gave out hand sanitizer and and sold sanitizer, paid for our people. And, yeah, you just, it was, you know, it's a great entrepreneur.
Greg Boulos50:50
You start making vodka at
Tim Harrington50:53
the brewery. Yeah, we turned to making hand sanitizer. And I would think people would want
Greg Boulos50:59
vodka more than hand Yeah.
Tim Harrington51:00
Well, maybe we did both, yeah, maybe we did both. But remember sanitizers,
Greg Boulos51:04
I don't know. They still give them out. You get on a plane now, they still hand them out. Yeah, I'm
Tim Harrington51:09
in. I can't look at hand sanitizer anymore, but, yeah, it's just, it was an entrepreneurial challenge. Same, same thing, you know, you innovate and figure it out. But I bought some great you know, I wouldn't have owned the Claremont if it wasn't for COVID. So it was, I look back at it, you know, personally, I don't Can you say this? But anyways, fondly. So
Greg Boulos51:35
switching subjects, there'll be a lot of brokers listening to this podcast. I know you've worked with both residential and commercial brokers in Miami and Maine. What are some of the positive traits you see in brokers and what are some of the negatives? Generally speaking,
Tim Harrington51:56
you can really get me in trouble here, so I'm not going we won't need as I told you, I love bro. So on the residential side, I'm surrounded by, you know, I love. My biggest turn on is competency. I love, you know, I love competency. And I have some really good friends that run some incredible residential businesses and, you know, and I'm making a ton of money, Jill Hertzberg in Miami, the Jill's, I think she does a billion dollars worth of transactions, you know, a year. So I was, she was just up here last week. And Kenny bump put Micki Benanti, and Heidi Maynard at Pat Maynard, who I absolutely love. I don't turn left or right on anything without Vicki, but actually sold me the dunes, and she's just, it's competency, you know. And I've done lots of lots of deals in Kevin, with Vicky, and then in Boston, Ricardo Rodriguez, he's one of the biggest in the United States, you know, incredible story of success and years, you know. And then on the commercial side, I'm more out of that now, you know, of course, in the hotel world, yes, that's a different set of brokers. And you know that have been amazing. I think about web Webster, who I just, you know, was an incredible advisor over the years, and then ended up doing the EOS transaction. I called him about maybe selling one property to retire the debt, and he's like, it was this crazy trophy price that someone was offering, and he was the one who said, No, the whole collection, you'll get a trophy price. And so I think of Bob Webster, and then, and then, you know, I end up being critical of, you know, leasing roses. I was one, you know, and back in the day. And you'll know this, and you probably can, I don't know, but, you know, there's link net and all these things. And brokers sit at their desks and get in things like, and, you know, we used to cold call. We used to go out and cold call. And if you had a space, you don't put on, like, net weight for people to call you, you said, What? What? What's the right thing for the space? What, you know, what should be in here? And then you just went out and knocked on every door of every, I don't know, every pizza place or every, you know, whatever it was this should be a toy store. And you went and called 10 toys. I don't know that brokers do that anymore, and, you know, so I have a, maybe they do, but, you know, I have a, you know, I
Greg Boulos54:37
think I hear you, yeah. I tell the guys in my office, and the ladies my office said, pick up the phone. Yeah, you know. And emails can be effective for certain things, but you don't try to, you don't sell through email, yeah, you know, you just don't do it. Pick up the phone.
Tim Harrington54:51
And, you know, kids, it's funny, because, you know, the whole thing of, like, talking to people and like, they don't even talk on the phone, you can't get, you know, and my niece and nephews can't. They tax. They. So, you know, it's like, like, talking. It's amazing. If you call, oh, it's really rude. If you return a text with a phone call, I've heard that from my niece. That's like, incredible. You could be
Greg Boulos55:09
texting with somebody, a young person, yeah, and, you know, they're there, yeah, and you call them,
Tim Harrington55:13
that's like, terrible. That's super rude. And they, they don't answer anyway, so they're not gonna,
Greg Boulos55:18
don't try FaceTime. That's even worse.
Tim Harrington55:20
But, but yes, it was like, it's just easier I'm driving or whatever. It's just easier to communicate by phone. But anyways, yeah, now we're now. Now we're sounding old. Well,
Greg Boulos55:29
we are no What lessons have you learned that aspiring hospitality and real estate entrepreneurs can benefit from piece of advice?
Tim Harrington55:42
So you know two different things, because we said real estate and hospitality. I think you know, everyone should own a house. I, you know, my biggest drive in my company is every young person should own a house, and we want to help them buy a house. And once you know, you can really set your, you know, set your family on a different trajectory by owning a house. Is get something, get your first thing, fix it up, and then, you know, rent that out, use the equity in it, get a home equity, and buy your second thing and buy your third thing. And every kid can do this. Everyone can do that. That's the thing that everyone can do. Forget how to tell you, it's a different thing. It's a calling. That's a separate thing, that's, you know, that. But real estate, just get a house. If you're 20, get a house and and and work, you know, and say, Well, what do you mean that takes money to do that? No, it's okay. Yeah, you have to work hard. But there's all kinds of things. Get 5% down payment main banks your first time home buyer. But get a house and and once you get one house, save fix it up, do the work on it. And then, you know, you can, you can do this, and people can do it. And you know, I have, he's, I think of him as a friend of mine now, he works for me. He's with a H to B in KRC for a long time. And he's, you know, bought a house, scraped and things, and drove at night and had, you know, so many different jobs and bought a house in San Fran was just telling me, because I was just, he picked me up at Logan yesterday, and, you know, I think he was, he paid a couple years ago 185 and it was just, you know, appraised at 375 and he's put vinyl siding on it, one side at a time, and one kitchen cabinet. He can buy it. Home Depot is a time, at a time, and, and he's amazing. And he's gonna, you know, this year, he'll buy his, his next one. So if he can do it, anyone can do it, and, and, you know, but he's driven, you know, and, and so, yeah, it's, you know, it's a great way to build wealth. And don't sell the first and keep it. Just keep renting them and get the next one
Greg Boulos58:04
last question for you, Tim, I see you've got a crystal ball in front of you. So tell us what's the market going to be like in 10 years from now? Oh, god, does it keep going like it is, you know,
Tim Harrington58:19
I, you know, refer back to buy, you know, buy your house, buy your next house. Yeah, I think, you know, the biggest thing is that you're paying off the someone else is paying off your mortgage. So leverage is the best thing in the world. You know, you buy something with 5% 10% 15% down in leverage. There's no, no other investment quite like it does it keep going, the trajectory for Maine is, is good. I have to say, you know, I think it's funny when people talk about national real estate trends, it's total bullshit. You know, my brother just sold a house in Connecticut. I don't know that that house went up very much over the 20 years that he owned it, some whatever, but he paid it down, you know. So his mortgage got paid off, so it was great, but it didn't, you know, go up like on the market. So it's not the same. Not every place is the same. But, you know, people are listening in Maine. You know, Maine has a great trajectory in front of it, in the Outlook, in the hospitality world, which this covers, people want to be here. You think of like, global warming. People think of like, Let's go north cooler, you know, chaos, Maine. People went to camp in Maine. It's just they have a fantasy about Maine as whatever it is. I don't know, a simpler life, a more healthy life. And it is, it's all those things. And we have these incredible assets, like Acadia and like, you know, I think of over at Sunday River, where I love in Bethel and the White Mountains, and then up around Killington. And then, of course, our oceans, and oceans and beaches. And, you know, Maine is, you know, I like to think of as the country of Maine, you know, it's our own country, and it's beautiful and so many different things. But yes, I am very. Be very bullish on Maine. Thank you, Tim. Thank you. This was very interesting. It was great. That's great. Thank you.
Greg Boulos1:00:09
That's it for today's episode of The Boulos Beat. Special. Thanks to Tim Harrington for being my guest. You can learn more about Tim and Atlantic Hospitality on their website@atlantichospitality.net and if you'd like to learn more about the bolus company, please be sure to visit us@boulos.com you can find us at The Boulos Company on Facebook and LinkedIn, and at the Boulos CO on Instagram and x. And lastly, if you want to know the secret to owning real estate, it's pretty simple. Just be sure to outlive your debt. You.